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-Welcome to The Great Exposure where we connect with community members to discuss how society’s disregard for indigenous people, people of color, and women has disproportionately affected their communities during the pandemic. We will not be silenced.

-She’s Kristine Savik.

-She’s Jess Hartwell.

-And I’m Nhia Vang.

-Welcome to the Great Exposure. In this episode, we’ll be talking about how COVID has disproportionately affected Indigenous communities in Minnesota.

-You know, we’ve had, like in that community in Mille Lacs, about 20% of the fluent speakers died this year. 

-And that’s Anton Treuer, author, activist and Ojibwe Professor at Bemidji State University. The Mille Lacs Reservation that he refers to, is one of seven Ojibwe reservations in the state of Minnesota. Throughout this episode, Anton will discuss with us how the pandemic has affected the tribal members that live on and off the reservations, and how Minnesotans can help each other, and what the future holds.

-Let’s dive right in.

-We found out almost exactly a year ago, you know, news was starting to break at the end of February but it wasn’t until March when, you know, America was starting to get concerned. You know, I was in Florida, on spring break from college, with my wife, and then, you know, we started hustling back. But I remember, like, going to the Billie Eilish concert in Miami, and then looking at all those people and thinking, this could be really bad, you know. And, then, the work adaptations I had to make, like in a virtual environment, weren’t as dramatic for me. I think that really stressed out some of the other professors, and some of the other students too, like some people just really have a hard time not having the same kinetic connection being in the same physical space with folks. So there were some adjustments for students. And then of course, you know, because I officiate at funerals, that’s probably the next big thing. We had to go from like these elaborate, big convenings of people to, even all the stuff you do with the body, like you gotta put on moccasins and there’s certain things that go in the casket with the person and teaching the white guys at the funeral home how to do that stuff, dropping off a bag and saying bring us a sealed casket and we’ll do this only outside and limit attendance to twenty people, you know, was big changes. And trying to train people who weren’t used to doing it that way and saying this isn’t right and that isn’t traditional and stuff like that to like, but we want you to live a long time so please accommodate. And then launching, like for me, I’ve been doing funerals and stuff for quite a while, but I coach and mentor a lot of people that we were trying to get to step up and try to replace some of the elders who we didn’t want to let out of their houses. Um so there was a lot going on, you know. It also brought to breaching halt some of our, you know, we would convene groups of about fifty people on these book projects you know and we’d pair up 25 fluent speakers each with a second language learner transcriber and they’d be working knee to knee all day and I was managing everybody. And I was like I can't get together and some people responded well to the virtual work environment and some people fell off the cliff and just could not rally for that. So we still kept the work going and some folks really showed their adaptability. And we had a lot of funerals this year.  

-I’m sorry for the losses that your community has experienced over this year.

-yeah and you know I think anytime a human being goes if you don’t know who it is it’s easy to just be disconnected from it because, you know, how can it be much different when you know somebody then it feels very different and when somebody is a carrier of rare knowledge that you really care about and are deeply invested in it just reverborates on a whole other level too. And so it’s been scary, you know, and some communities really just have a handful of speakers left and they’re all elders and so this has been really kinda terrifying for them. I think it’s been also a story of remarkable adaptability that a lot of these elders had their grandkid sit down with them and flip open a computer and turn on zoom and connect that way and were doing remote work. You know their ability to adapt to that environment. You know some of the elders are like cell phone text like yup I’m ready here’s the zoom link let’s go and like they’re even there and like you know just like a college student or somebody.Others are like I have no idea what the computer thing is somebody show me you know and so they just kinda range across the spectrum there. We had to make other adaptations too like even a lot of the elders you know are usually the folks who would be, like, tapped to officiate at funerals so we had to say you guys stay home. You have to stay home and it kinda forced some of the other younger folks who are in their forties and stuff like that to step up and start officiating at some of these things. So I think in a way you could say that covid was a real tragedy and a heart breaker and at the same time we also made some new people and we made some new projects and demonstrated some real resilience and adaptability. So I think both of those things are part of the story and oftentimes I don’t know if you’ve ever seen this TedTalk Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie gave. She’s a Nigerian literary figure.It’s called the danger of a single story and among the things she says in there is that the problem with stereotypes is that they’re incorrect as much as they are incomplete and just tell you one little sliver of information and it’s not everything you need to know. And I think with the native experience that’s usually all people get is one little sliver and so there’ll be these assumptions sometimes even wildly contradictory ones that Natives are all living in squalor on reservations or that we’re all rich from casinos. And some people might even say both and not even realize how contradictory they are you know and the truth is it’s kinda complicated. I mean you could say the same thing about that stereotype about white folk like if you just look at one thin sliver of Appalachia like white people oh my word what’s happening what’s going on with the white family. Send them some charity. You know, those poor people, you know, and then if you look at white folk living on the upper east side in Manhattan, you’d be like privilege galor, you know it’s gross. How come these rich white people aren’t taking care of these poor white people? Don’t they love their own people? Which is also one of the things that people ask about Natives. Well if they’ve got casinos how come you know there’s poverty? And of course you know it’s humans and it’s complex. And I think it’s much the same regard with COVID where you know you get a sliver of tragedy and like the stuff that’s filtered through to the mainstream news cycles are things like navajo nation with their disproportionate rates and just little things that have suggested the higher mortality rates for native people who get COVID and stuff like that. And it’s not wrong, it’s just incomplete.

-You mentioned how the media has shown COVID impacts in Indigenous communities, can you talk a little more about that?

-Obviously, we’ve got some media issues in this country, broadly. The issue used to be like you can’t find any information and now it’s like which piece of information in these reams of information do we even pay attention to. And it’s been so much damage done to people’s trust and faith and even vetted news reporting and news outlets have been really difficult. In an era too, when you know we’ve seen the collapse of local newspapers and even major state newspapers all across the country and they have you know they’re weaknesses to the capitalist system and among them all of the news outlets must demonstrate clicks shares you know and stuff like that. Essentially what drives clicks shares and likes is tragedy and trauma porn. So if there’s a story with great drama, great trauma or great tragedy it sells and so there’s this tendency to inflate the drama and spread the trauma. So some stories get really inflated and some get really dropped and so the disproportionate tragedy death statistics and infection rates for native people got a lot of attention you know so that's the part of the story that got amplified and the other parts of the story less so. You know, like federal agencies slow walking money didn't hear much about in the mainstream media you know what I mean. Or like you know the history of the Indian health service, having sterilised indigenous women in the 1970s and why natives might be less trusting of that agency, less attention. You know, the heroic language Warriors making new projects, less attention not as dramatic. You know the dramatic stuff has and the less dramatic stuff hasn't but the stuff with the staying power you know might not be the stuff that gets the headlines all the time. You know with the native community in particular we are often imagined and infrequently well understood and we’re small in population relative to the rest of the population in the state and a lot of us work directly for tribes and with tribes instead of dealing with the rest of the world and so you know we’re under represented in teachers and professors and you know people who write books and articles and things like that. It's just harder to get as much oxygen to all the other sides of the story.  

-And that’s the purpose here today: to shed light and give oxygen to the other sides of the Indigenous story that the media doesn’t show. 

-Yeah definitely. 

I was reading a study published by the Journal of Social Issues, when Native American high school students are exposed to these negative, trauma-focused media portrayals, it affects how they feel about themselves and their community. I can’t even believe that. 

-Dang Wow

-And with the negative media portrayal continued throughout this year it’s increased more as the pandemic hit the US.

-Right, we only saw stories about Native death and poverty.

-And we didn’t even hear anything about how Native’s were protecting themselves and how they were coming together as a community to help each other.

-Yeah right, Jess I think you have a question about the summer and last Spring of 2020 do you want to ask that question?

-Yeah so last summer and last spring when the Minnesota state mandates for masks and social distancing went into effect, how did that impact and affect indigenous communities within the state?

-Yeah so in our area, just you know first of all, in our area I can't believe how politicised the response to COVID has been, right like we should all be doing whatever makes us healthy and safe and high up republicans shouldn't have anything to say about that. You know it's been kind of nauseating to see how unadult the adults are dealing with this disease you know and and the way that they have politicised it. For the most part you know, the tribes in the Great Lakes plains and so forth tend to be more progressive and Liberal in their political views and they were shut down and masked up, and working remotely before the state even asked anyone else to. So we were kind of ahead of the curve there. What was frustrating was because this thing was so political and the trump administration was so opposed in masks and shutdowns and things like that is that there was an impact aid that was designated for tribes and the trump administration froze that money so it meant that the tribes couldn't like get the ventilators and the PPE that kind of stuff and so they really had to scramble. They kept up money embargoed for a long time and there are even cases like in South Dakota where the tribe said look we are closing our communities, we’ve closed all of the business operations, we’re closing stores, sending people home, you know and the governors like you can't do that we will compel you to stay open you know and fighting against this stuff. You know, the tribes said well we're a sovereign nation in your state government so we don't have to listen to you and they proceeded but then the state of course you know ran interference on support operations things like that. So that kind of political stuff has been really maddening, especially at a time when, for example COVID rates of infection and the deadliness of getting an infection are so much higher for the native community to have you know like white lawmaker say you can't protect your people how dare you stay open we compel you just outrageous you know. So that has abated now you know that's a different political environment in fact you know the tribes have been I would say a little bit you know at least on par or even a little bit ahead of the vaccination rates for States you know the Biden administration’s been much more supportive of tribes. So I don't know where just getting vaccines rolling out here I got mine you know and I'm 51 so you know I think most Americans my age have not gotten one yet.

-Is that federal aid you mentioned still frozen today?

-Nope, that got uncorked. Like the trump administration wasn't really authorised not to give their money they just embargoed it and slow-walked it as a punishment you know which is kind of how that administration works you know. Someone said something they didn't like even about COVID they punish him. That’s just kinda how they did things, like childhood playground antics.

-Yes so going onto this next question about PPE and being compelled to stay open. How did you guys manage to stay safe and gather PPE when you were willed to stay open? Could you explain a little about that? 

-It’s kind of complex the web of agencies, and it kind of depends on what tribal community you’re looking at. So you know tribes with larger populations in these are some of the famous ones would include the Navajo nation you know some of the big Ojibwe reservations and others. You know, there’s actually Indian health service clinic on the reservation. You know it’s fun to draw ospaces of the US to the US federal government so you know those agencies state open and like all federal agencies were scrambling around trying to get PPE you know the embargoing of of funds to some of these agencies for awhile and direct service monies to tribes slowed things down but it didn't stop it. You know in the very 1st few months everyone is freaked out you know there aren't enough and later there are no isn't enough bed space and stuff like that and there are just a lot of anti maskers in our area and people who are really resistant and so you know people would do what they had to not to get chewed out at work but not enough to really keep people safe. And so even now I think they feel like we had our COVID issue and everybody's had it so no point where the mass now you know and ended hasn't improved cooperation with that stuff. And it’s been terrible ya know, Red Lake they have a nursing home there. They have a 100% infection rate for the people at the nursing home. Had to bring in the National Guard to take over management. Several people died so it's been been kinda like that so the initial response I’d say tribes did everything they could you know they worked out arrangements with county agencies they begged bartered bought whatever they needed or could get their hands on and eventually I think you know access to ventilators and PPE has been resolved now but the 1st few months that was one of the big scares you know. Now I think the focus is really on vaccinations and there’s a different political administration and I think that’s been going differently now.

-Yeah just a question about those anti-maskers, so were there any anti-maskers in the Ojibwe community that you know of?

-I would say first of all that human beings are fundamentally lazy and so pretty much everywhere like people just get tired wearing a mask. It doesn't feel good, it's not fun. The extroverts really have trouble, honestly even elders who have hearing issues can't tell what people are saying, can't read somebody’s lips. You know and stuff like that and so I've seen people are not so much opposed to masks but are like you know what might what’s that you say? Pull the mask down. I said! and so I've seen things like that and I would call it laziness or breakdown of mask discipline rather than anti mask and we've just had, I mean there probably isn’t family that hasn't somebody die so it hits a little different when that's your truth and it's been really frustrating for me and I just like going out shopping or anything. People are so resistant, and so lazy about mask discipline and for them it's like you know some people like no one's gonna take my freedom my make my blah blah blah. You know talk like that. For others are like whatever I'm just gonna do whatever you know and are not really thinking but we that can kill your neighbour kill them dead you know if they had to sit there and watch the person die maybe they think differently. Until it's their family members it just aren't going to change behaviour and there's so much misinformation and disinformation and that's made it really difficult and we still see today. I mean their governors pulling back on COVID precautions over the advice of the CDC and the government because people just don't want to wear it. They don't want to be unpopular. They’d rather have people die than be unpopular. They’re gonna do what’s popular because they gotta run for election again.

-How do you feel that the state of MN and Tim Walz’ COVID response for indigenous communities has been over this pandemic?

-Yeah so it’s a little different, first of all the tribes themselves have a direct relationship with the federal government, and so the state doesn’t really control funds that go to tribes so whether the state would have been on the side of are opposed to the interest of tribes is a little bit less material. So we can say that like even in South Dakota where the governor was trying to stop you know the tribes from closing down they really weren't that effective but when the federal government wanted to get in the way of funding the tribes they were effective at that. So you know states have a different kind of power structure in terms of relationship with the tribes. That said you know in Minnesota there's an agency called the Minnesota American Indian affairs council and you know they are the liaison between the governor's office and the tribes and you know they had a pretty robust communication plan I wouldn;t say that the state really made the difference for the tribes but they didn't get in their way so that was appreciated you know I think even the Walz administration is its political to I think they probably could have done a little more to be more restrictive you know but this is a very purple state and so there's like a political consequence for being too tough and they’ve usually tried to walk the line somewhere in between to you know provide for enough safety but not so much that people go into revolt you know and so unfortunate that there too it wasn't just scientists and scientific knowledge that were guiding the decisions to politics were also guiding the decisions you know from the democratic administration. That said democrats were a little more willing to go with masks and shutdowns and that kind of stuff and because the Trump administration really didn't provide national guidance and left everything up to the states and which was also issue at least that was handed a little bit better and saw you could see Minnesota even when our neighbouring States were going up up up you know we were kind of holding the line we a little bit better data results from that even with a bigger metropolitan area in the Twin Cities than you have you know any of the surrounding States so I think that you know mitigated our damage. It could probably have been a little better but it was better that would have been if we didn't have them in there. And even Biden administration although I’m appreciative of the improved relationship with tribes and greenlighting vaccines for tribes and stuff like that should still have a national mandate not just say my employees in the federal agency should wear them there should be a national mask mandate until this is over. There should there's no reason not to have a coordinated federal health policy and I appreciate you know the the idea of like power to the people and each school district and make their own policies and things like that but when it comes to health the pandemic doesn't see this little many borders and its not about power to the people we should do what makes the most sense for us health wise and I've just seen a lot of cowardice from a lot of our politicians of all stripes I mean this is a fundamental philosophical issue in the US government want more freedom or do you want more safety? We could be safer yeah if we sacrificed a little bit of freedom we accept being less safe so we can have more freedom you know and with the pandemic we could have saved hundreds of thousands of lives if we were willing to infringe upon people's freedom a little more and we chose not to infringe upon people's freedom but instead to sacrifice those hundreds of thousands. That's the American way. 

-This year has really highlighted I think for sure. 

-So after explaining about the state of Minnesota and Tim Walz COVID response how do you feel about the local tribes how did they help out each other during the pandemic could you explain that or just elaborate 

-So first of all all of the tribes communicate directly with one another and have been sharing information resources, even inventory lists on PPE and things like that. The agencies like the Indian health service Actually don't have like one per tribe it kinda have regional office's so like the 1 in Cass Lake actually serves a pretty large area so even the vaccine clinic that's been going in Cass Lake I mean people are coming from all across the state to get vaccinated there were indigenous and over half of the tribal population lives off reservation. So there’s been pretty good communication around some of those things even with my vaccine I live over in leech Lake and I got my 1st vaccine up at Red Lake. They Said well you're coming here and officiating funerals all the time so we want to have a vaccine so you’re safe and so that our people are safe when you come up here you know and so That was something that happened in and then Cass lake got theirs going. So I communicated with Red Lake. I took my 2nd dose over in Cass Lake so yeah tribes have been trying to work together on the COVID stuff. You know each is independent and they have their own political, economic, and other objectives.  Sometimes they compete with each other economically and other ways but also work cooperatively so the famously financially successful Shakopee Mdewakanton Sioux Community usually gives about 42 million in philanthropic gifts a year and most of that to tribes. So there there's stuff going on in that cooperative supportive arena too. 

-Well congratulations do again forgetting the vaccine that's wonderful news for you how does indigenous community like where do people fall into line for getting it is it really just the same as everyone else is the age or?

-I haven't really seen a good data set There are anti-vaxxers in the native community and I know which is a little surprising to me consider it think it be grabbing every tool you could I say there still overwhelming support for getting them and cooperation with getting the vaccines but imagine like the native population has been burned government so many times in so many ways you know some people are like white man devil medicine how do I know this isn't going to make us all infertile there gonna tell us 20 years from now you know like that's not what's going on I don't think that's what's going on you know you not gonna grow tail like what we've seen COVID kill a lot of us let's go get a vaccine and most people that's where at but it is a little scary taking the word of a group that has not treated you well from the military stuff to health stuff the Indian health service which provides health care for most native people at least on reservations in the 1970s they sterilised tens of thousands of Native People tuble ligations without getting their consent you know and stuff like that so that's within the living memory of people my age and older so they’re like they want to do what to me know just a home so yeah some people are like that I the tribal governments are not like that and community outreach in the health service folks aren't like that there trying to encourage people to get vaccinated is just it's a different layer of barrier you know that might be there for some folks.

- I could totally understand and empathise that vaccines have to see among native Americans their distrust in government. I can understand that.

-Yeah especially considering how terribly the US government treated them over the years. We basically committed genocide against them. 

-It's just one example of systematic racism among many. I mean right they been impacted by that 

-Right so how do you think systemic racism has impacted indigenous communities this year?

-I think pretty profoundly. If it were white children who were disproportionately dying do you think white people be acting like they are now no way no way it would be on complete lockdown and they’d be ready to shoot people who are going out and having a party and that's not what's going on but disproportionate impacts that aren’t hitting communities of colour are less concern to some significant numbers of white folk continue to fight against even the most basic modifications to personal behaviour like it doesn't take Anything away from you to short you not to like wear mask doesn't shorten your life doesn't you know impact your longevity your health your well being it's an inconvenience that means it's less comfortable seeing other people in public and Frankly if people were more cooperative with that stuff the disease would not have progressed as fast and we would be ready to open up by now if people are concerned about the economy if they cooperated with damn mask mandates is tough like that we would be able to have it fully open by now and prolonging the agony now when we've got all these variants coming up means they could give it a whole new lease on life for that pandemic to keep going if there's something jumps the vaccine track and right now the vaccines are catching most of the variance but it's just a matter of time before one of them doesn't and they got to come up with booster shots or new vaccines and we just restart the clocks to extend this so it's the failure to cooperate that makes it cold longer instead of shutting it down soon that part's really frustrating and of course the people who bear the greatest brunt of it all are people in communities of colour And enough negative impacts for disproportionately affecting light focusing to be acting quite differently.

-How would you like nearby communities to help the indigenous community during this pandemic I know you spoke a little bit about the white folks and the government things like that

-We do this is something where we are so interconnected as human beings that we have to think of other people and it's the individual thinking me 1st only me that has really hurt our efforts in this area across-the-board and I don't think everybody thinks that way but we really rely upon all our neighbours to lean in and to be part of the solution also uniting is important point out that native people shouldn't just be objects of pity we are more than the sum of our tragedies you know we have strength and resilience we have tragedy too you know and that when thinking about what can I do to help frankly all of us all of us of all racial groups need some healing we all need some help and you know we all benefit from addressing things like systemic racism and so forth and it's not just because it leads us all to be more fully humanised but this is like a dark cloud hanging over us and we’re all breathing the smog if we don't lean in and address that stuff we condemn our children have to breathe the smog and it negatively impacts the quality of their life. This is a diverse world this is a diverse country we should prepare people for the world actually gonna live and operate in all that kind of stuff than some fantasyland that won’t exist. You know 51% of the K12 students in America are students of colour that's who's here that's our reality so figuring out how to get along is probably going to be far more powerful to them.

-What is the message that you want our listeners to take away from this Podcast?

-You know I'm glad people are 2 and leaning into the conversation I would say that there is often a lot going on below the surface that people might not see at 1st glance you know so every one of the tribes has a website and newspaper and lots of books out there and so if you don't know it's time to lean in, read a book let's check out an article let’s visit somebody's website let's listen to native voices let's look on YouTube there's all kinds of stuff in there all kinds indigenous news channels news from Indian country lots of places to get information and tap into native voices in that way you don't have to rely on some super filtered mainstream snipit of you know the latest drama frame of what's going on What you can actually get some native led discussion and understanding of of what's happening there have been horrible things that have happened there been some good things that have happened to we've had tremendous losses but we've also had some pretty remarkable gains in resilience and I think you know seeing both of those dimensions happening is is important you know we are a people who are changing all the time we are ancient and we are modern and we are also intentionally impacting and shaping our own history were not poor passive victims living in squalor taking all the diseases that the white man throws our way you know we are dealing with this pandemic as everyone else is in a sometimes with success and also with setbacks and I still think in spite of it all the future's bright 

-Thank you for taking time out of your spring break to do this

-Good luck on an important project

-Thank you so much 

-Thank you 

-Alright take care.

-I want to thank our listeners for tuning into this episode as we heard from Anton leaning in is the 1st step and you all took the time to do that today so thank you listeners thank you.

-Yes thank you and remember it does not stop here if you go to the Minnesota Indian affairs website which we will link in the description of this episode you can find links to all 12 tribal nations in the state of Minnesota and their independent newspapers 

-We also recommend reading any of Anton Treuer’s books, specifically “Everything You Wanted To Know About Indians But Were Too Afraid To Ask”. You can purchase this and any of his other titles at his website, antontreuer.com, which we also have linked in the episode description.

-This has been a challenging year for all of us, and now more than ever it is important for us help our community members. Check in with your neighbors, families and friends, keep an eye out for ways you can help people in need, and keep leaning into important conversations and educating yourself!

-This episode of The Great Exposure is executive produced by Jess Hartwel,lNhia Vang and Kristine Savik and edited by Kristine. The Great Exposure is produced by Katie Gunnick, Justin Danielson, Maya Wenzel, and Skyler Kottke. Original music composed by Jacob Ross.